2025-02-21 DADE CG Agenda

Welcome and antitrust policy reminder

Meeting notes

• Attendees
  • Mike Kiser (SailPoint)
  • Sean Miller (RSA)
  • Victor Lu ()
  • Mark Haine (OpenID)
  • Przemek Praszczalek (Mastercard)

• Przemek Intro :

  • he read the "afterlife of data" and hopes to bring others into this community group
  • investment thesis- 20 or 30 years in the future there will be more data about dead people rather than alive people

• Mark and Eve had a talk about reationship management

  • how to model and represent the relationships
  • Eve is going to bring a report on the "book club meeting"

• Review recent articles posted in Slack

  • Dead man walking: Judge tells man he’s still legally dead: https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/dead-man-walking-judge-tells-man-hes-still-legally-dead/

    • Sean - financial reprecussion here . . .
      • Government service related, legal aspect also
      • There may be a need to declare someone as deceased so that others can move on

  • Data of four dead British teens may have been removed, says TikTok https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yv4j8rzzzo

    • Mark - is this the UK?
      • DPDI bill in the UK could apply here when it comes into force
      • Coroner could requie social media to retain social media and data
      • precise example to enforce
      • Data Protection and Digital Information Bill in parliament
      • https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3430
    • Mike - what's interesting is that there is likely a data retention policy that may be enforce
    • Mark - asked our contact at NIST just in case

  • Declared dead by Service Canada, N.B. woman still trying to get life back https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/live-woman-declared-dead-service-canada-1.7451371

    • Mike - the article states tahat "human error is to blame"
    • Mark - John Darwin faked his own death (and then resurfaced) - death certificate was issued (fiction inspired by the novel which was ultimately on the show coronation street - iTV)
    • Sean - death certificate is assumed to be authoriative. In canada, you get the death certificate, and then everything goes out from there (driver's license, etc.)
      • "death list " - published on a national level - not sure of sourcing
      • lots of potential disconnects
    • Mark - another interesting one is that a friend was part of a support team for a quadraplegic
      • he passed away, and he was the central admin for everything finanical, etc
      • had a number of delegated authorities given his situation
      • Delegation of delegated authority might be in play
      • Authority spec that Mark is working on - there's a flag that is being put in that desginates whether delegated authority may be transferred
      • UPDATE: My friend who was involved in helping with the disabled person’s estate has agreed to write up key elements of the stor
    • Mike
      • techincal aspects can become a focus rather than thinking through the larger issues / mortality

  • Hacker News Discussion n digital estate https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42991112

  • Podcast - What Happens to Your Digital Footprint When You Die https://www.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/terms-of-service-with-clare-duffy/episodes/a03fc986-96cf-11ef-aa1b-0f7c30ea3f14

• Capturing Use Cases - 10 minutes

  • Victor has created an issue talking about the creation of audience-specific use cases: https://github.com/openid/death-and-the-digital-estate/issues/27

    • From Mitre-based approach, with layering of use case levels:
      • "Meta use cases" - a bit more abstract; more conceptual and easier (potentially) for people to interact with
      • "Standard Use cases" - specific scenarios
      • "Detailed Use Cases" - even more specific details
    • Original arcticle : https://www.toreon.com/threat-modeling-insider-november-2024/
    • 
    • First couple of use cases are very practical (standard use case) - "How do you recover the accounts and data?"
      • Leader of a provider knows that use case, but has additional shades of meaning and value - financial for the company, etc that are in play as well.

  • Mike - is this technical data as well? or just use case information ?

  • Victor - it would be helpful to read through the Mitre approach to see where they are coming from

  • Sean - this is helpful, do we need to break out the use cases from the audience perspective ?

  • Victor - we don't have to create a hierarchy, but we can identity the use case in a more comprehensive

• Terminology & Cultural Sensitivity

  • How do we manage the differences between how different people & cultures discuss death?

• Mike start of discussion - how
• Victor - came from china 30 years ago...
  • "death" is a taboo topic
  • the number 4 sounds like death - so people avoid it
  • if this project is going to be global, then we need to understand how people talk about this
  • "pass away" instead of "death?"
  • "moving to the next tone"
  • "life after / after life" issues
  • mandarin and cantonese / korean / japanese / vietnamese are influenced by the same region
• Mark - religion also plays into this
  • is death a continuation or an end?
• Victor - (in chat)- "DA / Departed Ancestors"
• Przemek - "after life" translates to multiple cultures
  • more and more people will be needing that state - digital trusts, etc
  • growing up in communist poland, everything was privitized - you would get a share of govt businesses that were going private
  • there were people coming in and buying additional shares, then holding them and profiting from them
  • Descendants might be able to profit from the existance of a loved one for some range of time
  • an economic approach
  • in the whitepaper?
  • not everyone will have their own digital data trust, but what do you do with that? (and how do you monetize that if needed?)
• Sean - do we need to rename the group ?
• Mark - had the same question...
• Sean - DADE has brand awareness
• Bjorn - acronym gives cover
  • FAPI renamed the underlying words
• Przemek - digital afterlife / digital estate
  • "death of an account might be in play as well, not just people"
  • what happens when you start erasing data, etc....?
  • when do you examine state?

• Outlining the White Paper for Cyber Security Awareness Month

  • OIDF Process review
  • Proposal
    • High level content
    • Blog - smaller, focused pieces
    • Whitepaper - Long form
  • Mark - do we have designated authors yet?
    • have experience in the white paper process
    • don't understimate the task at hand
    • a clear idea is helpful to maintain focus