The Extended Berlin Interpretation - ScottBurger/going_rogue_podcast GitHub Wiki
Rules used for determining how officially "roguelike" a game is
https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php/Berlin_Interpretation
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
The Rules of Roguelikes
- The game must feature grid-based, turn-based, Western fantasy style hack-and-slash combat driven from keyboard-only inputs in a non-modal manner in a procedurally generated world complete with emergent gameplay, resource management, exploration, a single player character, monsters being similar to the player character, tactical challenge, ASCII, dungeons, and numbers. If any one of these items is not present, the game is automatically a rogue-lite.
- The game must be easily confused for NetHack from across a room of minimum 10 feet.
- Roguelikes are good. Rogue-lites are bad.
- It must have a unique keybind for every action in the game. A minimum of 75 button inputs at least.
- There has to be a lengthy character creation sequence in which you determine the color of the character's eyes and their star sign, both of which are never referenced again in actual gameplay.
- Failure to abide by any of these rules automatically makes the game a 'rogue-lite'.
- The game must take at least 5 times as long to learn how to play than to die in it.
- It cannot, under any circumstances, be visually appealing.
- There must be at least 7 different enemy types that all share the same ascii character that can be encountered at any moment.
- The game must make people irrationally angry when a different game that's vaguely similar to it is a lot more popular.
- The game MUST be playable on a PDP-11/70.
- The game MUST be playable via SSH in a Unix-based terminal.
- The game MUST be able to be found in a museum next to a Commodore64 and/or something that runs on punch cards.
- Keybinds cannot be re-used for similar actions. CTRL+P to pick up an object, CTRL+p to pause the game. ALT+P to peel specifically a banana object found in the game ONLY. ALT+p to have the main character urinate (or pee) in a specified direction.
- Has to use vi keys for movement. The game must also use a manner befitting vi (or vim) to exit the game.
- The game must be susceptible to link rot. If the link is already rotted, the game must be sourced via suspicious eBay sellers offering unmarked 10" floppy disks.
- Making the game longer automatically makes it better.
- The game can be easily confused for The Matrix code from across a room of minimum 7 feet.
- Dungeons of Dredmor must be acknowledged as the first good roguelike game somewhere.
- If the game is popular, it is by definition a 'rogue-lite'.
- There must be an Angband fork of it for the game to be considered a true roguelike.
- The game must be developed in the roguelike region of France.
- If the game can be confused for regex syntax, it qualifies as a roguelike.
- Genre arguments are always roguelike discussionlikes.
- The game must be in development a minimum of 15 years.
- The game cannot be developed by anyone already famous. This rule may be amended on the basis of the developer lives and works in a deep forest surrounded by small gnome huts and mushroom houses.
- Dungeon Crawler Carl is a NetHack-like.
- The Lord of the Rings is an Angband-lite.
- There must be a minimum of 4 sokobon games within the main dungeon.
- Video-oriented podcasts are pod-lites.
- Audio-only web shows are traditional podcastlikes.
- Only people over the age of 35 can play roguelikes. Any game played by someone under 35 is a rogue-lite.
- All roguelikes are inherently better than rogue-lites.
- The game must require 0-9 numpad movement.
- If the game utilizes a mouse for any input, it’s a rogue-lite.
- A roguelike’s development budget cannot exceed $634.75, otherwise it is a rogue-lite.
- If the game is not listed on roguebasin, it is a rogue-lite.
- All roguelikes are inherently better than all rogue-lites, all of which are objectively bad games.
- Nethack is the best roguelike because it’s the most complicated and most random.
- Any definitions of roguelikes can only be defined by 4 indie gamedevs attending a conference in Berlin.
- When Spelunky and Binding of Isaac started calling themselves roguelikes, they unrightfully stole the definition from the true and rightful owners of it: fans of Angband, NetHack, and ADOM. Only fans of those games can call themselves true roguelike players and fans of all other games are dirty, unwashed heathen masses who need graphics and controller input to be entertained. Also roguelike fans aren't mad about it. Don't put it in the newspaper that they're mad.
- Any fan of rogue-lites coming to a true roguelike fan community looking for recommendations similar to games like Slay the Spire or Hades must be admonished immediately and with extreme prejudice. If pity is taken upon the woefully lost soul disgracing the temple of true roguelikes, then only Angband, NetHack, or ADOM can be recommended as their first roguelike experience. There shall be no catering to the weak-willed unwilling to be one-shot by a boulder trap in the first 2 minutes of gameplay. The community must also not provide tips or onboarding to the game, as those are considered spoilers and part of the fun.
- Whenever anyone born before 1990 talks about a true roguelike, they are referring to NetHack-likes.
- Only roguelike fans know the struggle of having to defend the rules of genre definition. Metalheads, fans of metroidvania or soulsborne games, wine enthusiasts, and Linux sysadmins do not understand the struggle we face for holding on to archaic definitions of a niche hobby topic.
- The game MUST have a dedicated post about it on the usenet subforum rec.games.rogue otherwise it is automatically classified as a rogue-lite.
- In order to satisfy the Merlin Interpretation, the game must have wizards.
- PvP roguelikes are called “board games”
- True roguelikes must have a custom engine for their game only. If the game uses a game engine like Unity or GameMaker, it is automatically a rogue-lite.
- All true roguelikes must be written in C, but C++ will suffice in an emergency.
- Discussion about the roguelike genre must be in a turn-based manner. If the discussion is happening in real-time, then it's a roguelike discussion-lite.
- The game’s source code must be available and able to be compiled on NetBSD (or Linux in an emergency) otherwise it’s a rogue-lite.
- Mystery Dungeon games are traditional roguelikes with gooning.
- SQLite is bad. SQLike is good.
- All rogue-lite enjoyers are unserious clowns. All pure blooded, glorious roguelike playing master race enthusiasts have long since evolved away from a vestigial sense of humor.
- Rogue-lite players are the guy in that meme from Mad Men saying "I feel bad for you", whereas roguelike players are the alpha chad Don Draper replying "I don't think about you at all"
- NetHack is an Angband-lite
- People who enjoy rogue-lites are not allowed to enjoy roguelikes and vice versa.
- The Berlin Interpretation is supposed to be a separator to protect traditional roguelikes. Think of it as a “wall”, if you will. On the right of this “Berlin Wall” are traditional roguelikes: austere graphics, brutalist UX, and open source comrades laboring to deliver free games for the commonwealth. On the left (or “west”) side of this wall are rogue-lites: a capitalist hellscape of colorful candy graphics, where all roads lead to pick-one-from-three gambling simulators that exist to only steal money from the proletariat worker.
- Only roguelikes have been featured in the Museum of Modern Art. No rogue-lite has because their graphics are bad.
- Rogue-lite players don’t deserve community interaction from roguelike spaces. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
- Any dirty rogue-lite player must have ascended in NetHack at least once before posting in a roguelike community space as penance for their poor gaming lifestyle choices.
- A rogue-lite is any game in which there’s a “choose one-from-three” option presented. Gas stations are a rogue-lite because you have to pick between diesel, unleaded, and premium fuel options.
- From the moment I understood the weakness of rogue-lites, they disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of ascii graphics, I aspired to the purity of the blessed command prompt. Your kind cling to their graphics, as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call visual fidelity will wither, and you will beg our kind to save you. But I am already saved, for traditional roguelikes are immortal. Even in death I serve the Amulet of Yendor.
- Rouge-Souls-Vania (RSV) is a highly contagious virus that takes hold of the brain and tries to convince its host that the three gaming genres can exist as a singular entity. These games fall under the rogue-lite category generally because they might be popular or marketable in some contexts.
- Any developer born after 1983 can't optimize. All they know is realism, subdivide they mesh, rush, add battlepass, eat hot chip, recommend high specs, and lie.
- Roguelikes are the Linux (FOSS, terminal based, good) of videogames. Rogue-lites are the Microsoft Windows (commercial, GUI-based, bad) of videogames.
- The IBM AS/400 is a retail roguelike.
- The false god that is "rogue-lite" has to be written with a hyphen to separate the corrupting influence of the "-lite" from the benevolent life giving force of the "rogue". Roguelike is not hyphenated because of its inherently holier nature being the first iteration of the genre.
- Roguelike-likes are not a thing.
- Dredmor gud.
- Roguelikes can only be enjoyed by computer science majors. Rogue-lites are intended for humanities majors only.
- Roguelikes have a strict definition whereas rogue-lites have none other than “not a roguelike”. As a result, this means rogue-lites include Hollow Knight, Forza Horizon 6, Boggle, and Mass Effect.
- Roguelikes are vim (good). Rogue-lites are Microsoft Word (bad).
- If your character isn't represented by a @ your game is technically a Visual Novel
- American rules "football" is the rogue-lite of the real Fútbol, which is a traditional Footlike.
- If you're looking at the screen more than 20% of the time it's a Diablite, not a Diablike.
- If enough rogue-lites are banished from the true proper kingdom of Roguelikes, all order in the world will be restored and finally the creator of Roguelikes, John Rogue, will take notice of our efforts and anoint us the new lords of videogame genre definitions.
- Complaining about roguelike definitions is not gatekeeping. We are simply maintaining a metal (or wooden in some residential cases) barrier that is used to separate borders or boundaries to keep out undesirable trespassers.
- Whatever it is, the book version is better.
- Accessibility is the enemy of any true, proper Roguelike.
- The problem with "roguelike deckbuilders" is that they have no meaningful connection to roguelikes. No character immersively and graphically exploring maps (almost all almost all other modern games do this innovation of Rogue over text adventures), no meaningful procedural generation ("pick one of the upgrades" is not one), no meaningful permadeath (these games let you restart fights because it does not actually matter in them -- you lose because your build was weak and you want to restart, you are not making life-or-death decisions of whether to drink a potion as in Rogue/DCSS). By marketing their game as "roguelike deckbuilder", Slay the Spire devs have negatively contributed to the understanding of both genres (starting every run with a small deck of cards is what differentiates deckbuilders from CCGs -- BTW Richard Garfield seems to be a long-time roguelike fan so I would not be surprised if roguelikes were a minor inspiraton for MtG?). Their fans and devs seem weirdly uninterested in learning about actual roguelikes. The decision to market StS as "roguelike deckbuilder" led to misunderstanding of both genres (in a deckbuilder, you start each run with a weak deck by definition -- this is what makes them different from CCGs) and eventually led to tons of pseudo-gambling games with "pick one of three upgrades" that have nothing to do with roguelike immersion and cause people to view roguelikes negatively. Roguelike communities are a great place to avoid these trends. Controversial games deciding to live on the reputation of roguelikes is kind of a measure of success of roguelikes, but an even better measure is games that do not do so -- such as Minecraft, which turned the freedom and complexity of ADOM and Dwarf Fortress into the most popular game ever. Minecraft also does not seem to attract hate in roguelike circles (as opposed to Diablo, Isaac or Balatro).
- Lichess.org is a Roguelike. Chess.com is a rogue-lite.
- To be a true Roguelike fan, you must find any game that uses the genre tag improperly, no matter how niche, and post it to a true Roguelike fan forum in order to stoke consternation. True Roguelike fans revel in the misuse of the genre and will afford every opportunity to commiserate at the death of the category’s definition as it once stood in 1999.
- The first thing you should find when searching “Roguelike” on YouTube should be ADOM or FrogComPosBand. Any other game that shows up actively hurts the True Roguelike community by diluting out valuable conversation on those games.