Thieves Guild - Omni-guides/Tuxborn GitHub Wiki

This page provides an overview of Tuxborn's changes to the Thieves Guild.

Tuxborn is running the mod Thieves Guild Requirements, which has some notable impacts on how the Thieves Guild plotline operates. There are several major and minor changes this mod makes. The most notable ones include:

• Changes the starting requirements to get Brynjolf to talk to you in Riften
• Changes starting requirements for the quests Dampened Spirits and Scoundrel's Folly
• Allows Unusual Gems to stack in your inventory, and also makes it possible to sell them to Ri'saad if you aren't playing the Thieves Guild, and therefore have no intentions of talking to Vex

Some other differences you can expect are:

• As with all NPCs in the game, various Riften and Guild NPCs will probably look different to you if you're only familiar with vanilla Skyrim
• When running the quest Dampened Spirits, you still need to meet with Maven Black-Briar in the Bee and Barb, but she'll be downstairs rather than upstairs
• Light levels in the Ratway and the Ragged Flagon may be different than what you're used to from the vanilla game, adjust in Azurite Meditation if necessary, or use lanterns

You need to fulfill three criteria before Brynjolf will make his pitch to you in Riften:

• Your Sneak must be at least 50
• You must steal at least 250 items
• You must pick 25 pockets

These are adjustable in the mod's MCM if you think these defaults are too stringent.

Some tips to meet these requirements:

1. If you choose to keep Static Skill Leveling on for your playthrough, you may wish to toggle the option that allows you to level skills as you use them. This can let you level your Sneak faster. You could then toggle it back if you prefer to not have your skills leveling on use, as soon as your Sneak is high enough. You do not have to worry about leveling Security per se, unless it's in service of your being able to pickpocket faster.
2. Or, you could just turn that mod off entirely. Since it's in the Optionals section of our load order, this is okay for you to do. Just don't do it on an active save. Start a new game if you disable this mod.
3. If you'd like an in-character excuse to do a bunch of thievery and pickpocketing, consider running Project AHO early-ish in your playthrough. Due to the very nature of that mod's plot, you can make an argument for robbing everybody in Sadrith Kegran blind being almost a moral imperative! Also, running AHO will give you access to the Typewriter machines that can let you create spellbooks. If you have high enough level soul gems, this can let you get the Invisibility and Muffle spells. Which can aid your thieving endeavors!
4. Consider picking up Xelzaz as an early follower. His potions of Imperception can give you a guaranteed means of invisibility, and that will also significantly help your ability to steal and pickpocket items.
5. In our load order, Lockpicking and Pickpocket are combined into a single skill tree, Security (see below). This does not apply to enchanted items or potions that provide Lockpicking or Pickpocket buffs. These items are supposed to continue to function as they do in vanilla Skyrim. So be on the lookout for these items, if you can buy them from merchants. Or look for relevant ingredients to make potions if you want to play a character who can do Alchemy.
6. Khayla, one of the Khajiit who travel with Ri'saad's caravan, is a Sneak trainer. Of the Sneak trainers available in the game, she's likely to be the one you'll encounter first, assuming your game starts in reasonable range of Whiterun. So consider buying training from her as your available gold permits.
7. Garvey in Markarth is also an option as a Sneak trainer, if your early game puts you within easy range of Markarth, or if you make a point of going there early to pick up Remiel as a follower.

(The third trainer for Sneak in the game is Delvin Mallory, but of course, you won't get access to him until you actually join the Guild.)

You need to run at least 6 jobs for Delvin and/or Vex for Dampened Spirits, and 12 for Scoundrel's Folly.

Both of these are also adjustable in the mod's MCM.

See the mod's page for further details. Its MCM offers a lot of other settings you can use to tweak things like whether taking the Unusual Gems counts as stealing, randomize where the Unusual Gems are located, set whether or not you want them to have quest markers, how high a gold value you need to hit when running a Bedlam Job, how many jobs are required per city to restore Thieves Guild influence there, and more.

Here's some guidance on followers to consider if you want to join the Guild:

Follower	Notes
Auri	Actively friendly to thievery, and has reaction lines to joining the Guild; considers herself to join the Guild along with you. Has commentary on major Guild plot points, although not quite as much as Xelzaz or Remiel. Some of her commentary is only available via dialogue options with her, so it's a good idea to talk to her after major Guild plot milestones. Also, several of her Guild-related lines appear to not be voiced. So you should activate subtitles if you want to see those lines. You can summon her into Snow Veil Sanctum with you, but probably shouldn't, because she has lines afterward that would contradict her being in there with you.
Gore	Does not seem hostile to thievery, and makes a crack about stealing drinking money if he's sneaking along with you.
Lucien	Not hostile to your joining the Guild, and will sometimes joke about being your partner in crime.
Lydia	Actively hostile to your joining the Guild unless you turn off her faction reaction option in her MCM.
Remiel	Actively friendly to thievery, and has lines about it, both for herself and in combination with Auri. Comments on all major Guild plot points. She can be summoned into Snow Veil Sanctum, but we recommend against this for avoiding breaking the narrative at that location.
Xelzaz	Generally neutral to the Guild, but has running commentary on major Guild plot points. His follower code respects the restriction on followers not being able to go with you into Snow Veil Sanctum, and you cannot summon him in there with you. He will have some strong opinions on your association with Nocturnal.

Yes, but you will need to get access to the Hall of Secrets to take advantage of that. There is a Thieves Guild display in that hall, which can take Guild-related items.

Yes. Here's a list of mods with an impact, either direct or indirect:

Mod	Notes
Adamant	Does not directly impact the Thieves Guild, but it's worth reviewing what changes it makes to Sneak, to make sure you're getting the most out of that skill line for your thieving Dragonborn.
Environs - Riften Warehouse	Possibly relevant to Thieves Guild members if you plan to steal goods in Riften. Once you clear out the skooma dealers from the city, this warehouse will no longer be abandoned, so plan accordingly!
Face Sculptor Expanded	The Face Sculptor is technically Dawnguard content, but since she hangs out in the Ragged Flagon, you will get a very good look at how she's changed. You may even see her plying her services to NPC citizens, or interacting with Thieves Guild NPCs.
Hand to Hand - An Adamant Addon	This addon mod merges Pickpocket and Lockpicking into a single skill line, Security. This impacts Guild-related trainers.2
Interesting NPCs	Adds a Khajiit called Gnives to the Ragged Flagon. He does not have any associated quests, but you can converse with him.
Nightingale Armor and Weapons Retexture SE	Pretty much what the name says.
Rebalancing Anniversary Edition - Quest Requirements	If you want to run the Anniversary Edition quest In the Shadows1, RAE sets a requirement of finishing the Thieves Guild quest line first.
Revealing Rune	Rune is an NPC you'll see in the Cistern once you join the Guild. His dialogue in vanilla hints at an interesting backstory--and this mod sets that backstory up for him, and lets you explore it.
Stuff of Shadows	Some bug fixes and tweaks for Nightingale Hall and the Twilight Sepulcher.

Here are some recommendations specific to stages of the main Guild questline:

If you're running a party of followers, consider either dismissing them or having them wait for you outside, before you enter the East Empire Company Warehouse to shadow Gulum-Ei on his way to Brinewater Grotto. You will make it through the place much more quickly and quietly if you're by yourself, especially if you have the Invisibility and Muffle spells or potions, or gear with a Muffle enchantment.

Remember that while you can rampage through the place if you want to, any deaths you cause in the warehouse will count against you, both in terms of bounties and in terms of the Thieves Guild "no killing" ethos.

Once you enter Brinewater Grotto, though, you can safely summon any followers back to you. Any bandits in Brinewater Grotto can be killed with impunity.

Again, if you're running a party of followers, you might want to dismiss them (or at have them wait somewhere appropriate) before you run the Speaking With Silence quest at Snow Veil Sanctum. There are a few reasons for this:

1. Even in vanilla, Mercer Frey has a known issue where if a follower gets in his way³, he may never come down the steps to the puzzle door that leads into Snow Veil Sanctum. He has to open the door for you so that you can enter to advance the quest.
2. If you have a party of followers with you, the big reveal in the final chamber becomes a lot less believable.
3. Some custom followers have dialogue with you that explicitly describes them not being able to follow you into the ruin, trying to catch up with you, and then intercepting an important NPC on her way out. So if that follower auto-ported into the place with you, or if you summoned them in, this will break believability of such dialogue if that follower has it.⁴

1. The In the Shadows quest would normally give you the Bow of Shadows, but in our load order, you'll get the Bow of Obfuscation instead. RAE's requirement to finish the Thieves Guild quest first still applies, however, unless you turn that off in RAE's MCM.
2. This addon removes the Lockpicking training option from Vex, and converts Ma'jhad into a Hand to Hand trainer. Silda the Unseen and Vipir the Fleet, the vanilla Skyrim trainers in Pickpocket, have been converted to Security trainers. Get your training from either of these characters.
3. This can include a horse, if you have a horse in "follow" mode. So either don't bring a horse with you to Snow Veil Sanctum, or if you do, toggle it into "wait" mode a little ways away from the ruin.
4. Auri and Xelzaz both have lines to this effect. Auri can be summoned in to join you in Snow Veil Sanctum. Xelzaz cannot. His automaton, Roovi, will mysteriously not work within the ruin! So his follower code is respecting the "no followers" restriction on the place.