meeting 2025 08 27 n57 - JacobPilawa/TriaxSchwarzschild_wiki_6 GitHub Wiki
Context
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Gathering some notes for brief meeting with Chung-Pei today regarding the N57 environment and scaling relation plots.
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First, just to set the stage, here's the data that Emily handed to me which produce her H15 scaling relation Figure. This data seems to be exactly what was in Thomas+16 with the addition of H15, so any new measurements between then (2016) and now are likely missing.
| Name | Dist | Mbh_low | Mbh_mid | Mbh_high | Sigma | Rb_low | Rb_mid | Rb_high | Rsoi_low | Rsoi_mid | Rsoi_high |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NGC 3379 | 10.57 | 3.100e+08 | 4.100e+08 | 5.100e+08 | 206.0 | 0.0537 | 0.0562 | 0.0575 | 0.0421 | 0.0520 | 0.0643 |
| NGC 3608 | 23.00 | 3.700e+08 | 4.700e+08 | 5.700e+08 | 182.0 | 0.0214 | 0.0234 | 0.0257 | 0.0460 | 0.0600 | 0.0783 |
| NGC 4261 | 31.60 | 4.100e+08 | 5.200e+08 | 6.200e+08 | 315.0 | 0.1738 | 0.1820 | 0.1905 | 0.0803 | 0.0950 | 0.1124 |
| NGC 1399 | 21.10 | 4.400e+08 | 9.100e+08 | 1.800e+09 | 296.0 | 0.2455 | 0.2512 | 0.2570 | 0.0988 | 0.1111 | 0.1249 |
| NGC 4291 | 25.00 | 6.300e+08 | 9.200e+08 | 1.210e+09 | 242.0 | 0.0389 | 0.0398 | 0.0407 | 0.0501 | 0.0611 | 0.0742 |
| NGC 4374 | 18.45 | 8.400e+08 | 9.200e+08 | 1.020e+09 | 296.0 | 0.1259 | 0.1318 | 0.1380 | 0.0748 | 0.0911 | 0.1111 |
| NGC 7768 | 112.80 | 9.000e+08 | 1.300e+09 | 1.800e+09 | 257.0 | 0.1549 | 0.1585 | 0.1622 | 0.1237 | 0.1442 | 0.1678 |
| NGC 7619 | 51.52 | 2.200e+09 | 2.500e+09 | 3.300e+09 | 292.2 | 0.1047 | 0.1202 | 0.1349 | 0.1172 | 0.1541 | 0.2025 |
| NGC 4472 | 17.14 | 2.400e+09 | 2.500e+09 | 2.800e+09 | 300.2 | 0.1445 | 0.1514 | 0.1585 | 0.1666 | 0.2060 | 0.2554 |
| IC 1459 | 30.90 | 1.600e+09 | 2.800e+09 | 3.900e+09 | 315.0 | 0.0933 | 0.1023 | 0.1148 | 0.1030 | 0.1240 | 0.1492 |
| NGC 5516 | 58.44 | 3.000e+09 | 3.300e+09 | 3.500e+09 | 328.2 | 0.1660 | 0.1738 | 0.1820 | 0.1901 | 0.2362 | 0.2928 |
| NGC 6086 | 133.00 | 2.500e+09 | 3.600e+09 | 5.300e+09 | 318.0 | 0.3388 | 0.3548 | 0.3631 | 0.3341 | 0.3916 | 0.4589 |
| NGC 3091 | 51.25 | 3.400e+09 | 3.600e+09 | 3.700e+09 | 297.2 | 0.1445 | 0.1549 | 0.1660 | 0.1425 | 0.1841 | 0.2380 |
| NGC 1550 | 51.57 | 3.300e+09 | 3.700e+09 | 4.100e+09 | 270.1 | 0.2754 | 0.2951 | 0.3236 | 0.1670 | 0.2333 | 0.3261 |
| NGC 1407 | 28.05 | 4.100e+09 | 4.500e+09 | 5.400e+09 | 276.1 | 0.2630 | 0.2754 | 0.2818 | 0.2850 | 0.3793 | 0.5048 |
| NGC 5328 | 64.10 | 2.800e+09 | 4.700e+09 | 5.600e+09 | 332.9 | 0.2512 | 0.2630 | 0.2754 | 0.2735 | 0.3244 | 0.3840 |
| NGC 4649 | 17.30 | 3.900e+09 | 5.000e+09 | 6.100e+09 | 341.0 | 0.2344 | 0.2399 | 0.2455 | 0.2153 | 0.2542 | 0.3001 |
| NGC 4486 | 17.22 | 5.700e+09 | 6.200e+09 | 6.600e+09 | 324.0 | 0.6607 | 0.6761 | 0.7079 | 0.3357 | 0.4545 | 0.6152 |
| NGC 3842 | 98.40 | 7.200e+09 | 9.700e+09 | 1.270e+10 | 270.0 | 0.3162 | 0.3311 | 0.3467 | 0.4012 | 0.4914 | 0.6017 |
| NGC 4889 | 103.20 | 5.000e+09 | 2.100e+10 | 3.700e+10 | 347.0 | 0.7586 | 0.7943 | 0.8128 | 0.7352 | 0.8533 | 0.9879 |
| NGC 1600 | 64.00 | 1.550e+10 | 1.700e+10 | 1.850e+10 | 293.0 | 0.6607 | 0.6761 | 0.6918 | 0.8346 | 1.0578 | 1.3403 |
- Of these 21 galaxies, 11 have Mbh>3 billion solar masses:
| Name | Dist | Mbh_low | Mbh_mid | Mbh_high | Sigma | Rb_low | Rb_mid | Rb_high | Rsoi_low | Rsoi_mid | Rsoi_high |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NGC 5516 | 58.44 | 3.000e+09 | 3.300e+09 | 3.500e+09 | 328.2 | 0.1660 | 0.1738 | 0.1820 | 0.1901 | 0.2362 | 0.2928 |
| NGC 6086 | 133.00 | 2.500e+09 | 3.600e+09 | 5.300e+09 | 318.0 | 0.3388 | 0.3548 | 0.3631 | 0.3341 | 0.3916 | 0.4589 |
| NGC 3091 | 51.25 | 3.400e+09 | 3.600e+09 | 3.700e+09 | 297.2 | 0.1445 | 0.1549 | 0.1660 | 0.1425 | 0.1841 | 0.2380 |
| NGC 1550 | 51.57 | 3.300e+09 | 3.700e+09 | 4.100e+09 | 270.1 | 0.2754 | 0.2951 | 0.3236 | 0.1670 | 0.2333 | 0.3261 |
| NGC 1407 | 28.05 | 4.100e+09 | 4.500e+09 | 5.400e+09 | 276.1 | 0.2630 | 0.2754 | 0.2818 | 0.2850 | 0.3793 | 0.5048 |
| NGC 5328 | 64.10 | 2.800e+09 | 4.700e+09 | 5.600e+09 | 332.9 | 0.2512 | 0.2630 | 0.2754 | 0.2735 | 0.3244 | 0.3840 |
| NGC 4649 | 17.30 | 3.900e+09 | 5.000e+09 | 6.100e+09 | 341.0 | 0.2344 | 0.2399 | 0.2455 | 0.2153 | 0.2542 | 0.3001 |
| NGC 4486 | 17.22 | 5.700e+09 | 6.200e+09 | 6.600e+09 | 324.0 | 0.6607 | 0.6761 | 0.7079 | 0.3357 | 0.4545 | 0.6152 |
| NGC 3842 | 98.40 | 7.200e+09 | 9.700e+09 | 1.270e+10 | 270.0 | 0.3162 | 0.3311 | 0.3467 | 0.4012 | 0.4914 | 0.6017 |
| NGC 4889 | 103.20 | 5.000e+09 | 2.100e+10 | 3.700e+10 | 347.0 | 0.7586 | 0.7943 | 0.8128 | 0.7352 | 0.8533 | 0.9879 |
| NGC 1600 | 64.00 | 1.550e+10 | 1.700e+10 | 1.850e+10 | 293.0 | 0.6607 | 0.6761 | 0.6918 | 0.8346 | 1.0578 | 1.3403 |
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For the environmental plot, I tried to find all galaxies with dynamical Mbh mass measurements greater than 3 billion solar masses:
- It looks like there are 9 additions to the >3 billion case above, with most of them being very new measurements. Note that 4751 is "borderline" in that there are a few models presented in the paper which straddle 3 billion, but I'm opting to include it. There's also the 2013 Rusli measurement (stellar) which has the mass at 1.4 billion, but I'm choosing the ALMA CO measurement here (WISDOM team).
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I tried to track down luminosity-weighted dispersions and break radii for the galaxies NOT present in the table above. NGC 1277/NGC383/NGC4751 rb doesn't appear to have been measured, at least that I can find.
| Name | APPEAR IN TABLE ABOVE? | z | D_SBF (Mpc) | D_lit (Mpc) | M_bh (10^9 M☉) | σ (km/s) | r_b (kpc) | N_HDC | M_Halo (10^14 M☉) | ν₁₀/ν̃ | Reference |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| NGC 1407 | YES | 0.006 | … | 28.05 | 4.5 | 276 | 0.275 | 12 | 1.11 | 93 | Rusli+13 |
| NGC 1550 | YES | 0.012 | … | 51.57 | 3.7 | 270 | 0.295 | 7 | 0.99 | 22 | Rusli+13 |
| NGC 1600 | YES | 0.016 | 71.7 | 64.0 | 19.1 | 293 | 0.676 | 15 | 1.54 | 600 | Thomas+16 |
| NGC 3091 | YES | 0.013 | … | 51.25 | 3.6 | 297 | 0.155 | 7 | 0.76 | 120 | Rusli+13 |
| NGC 3842 | YES | 0.021 | 87.5 | 98.4 | 8.63 | 270 | 0.331 | 42 | 5.96 | 15000 | McConnell+11 |
| M 87 | YES | 0.004 | 16.7 | 16.8 | 5.34 | 324 | 0.676 | 68 | 5.01† | 13000 | Liepold+23 |
| NGC 4649 | YES | 0.004 | 16.5 | 15.7 | 4.73 | 341 | 0.240 | 68 | 5.01† | 2200 | Shen & Gebhardt 2010 |
| NGC 4889 | YES | 0.022 | 99.1 | 103.2 | 20.17 | 347 | 0.794 | 49 | 19.95† | 14000 | McConnell+11 |
| NGC 5328 | YES | 4.7 | 333 | 0.263 | — | ||||||
| NGC 6086 | YES | 3.6 | 318 | 0.355 | — | ||||||
| NGC 5516 | YES | 3.3 | 328 | 0.182 | — | ||||||
| NGC 5419 | NO | 0.014 | … | 56.2 | 7.2 | 350 | 0.430 | 25 | 2.14 | 2100 | Mazzalay+16 |
| H15 | NO | 0.056 | … | 222.3 | 21.6 | 303 | 2.79 | 82 | 6.1 | 20000 | Liepold+25 |
| NGC 57 | NO | 0.018 | 66.9 | 64.6 | 9.5 | 257 | 0.430 | 1 | 0.21 | 2 | This work |
| NGC 315 | NO | 0.017 | 68.1 | 65.9 | 3.0 | 341 | 0.346 | 6 | 0.35 | 170 | Pilawa+25 |
| NGC 708 | NO | 0.016 | 61.5 | 68.5 | 8.98 | 200 | 0.724 | 39 | 2.92 | 8200 | DeNicola+24 |
| NGC 1277 | NO | 0.017 | … | 71.0 | 4.9 | 333 | 117 | 6.70 | 710000 | Walsh+16 | |
| NGC 383 | NO | 3.58 | 239 | — | |||||||
| NGC 4751 | NO | 3.43 | 355 | — |
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A few other notes:
- I originally included NGC 997 in my table above, but it turns out that the mass is incorrect in the Big Galaxies and Big Black holes paper (incorrectly listed as >3 billion, when it's actually 9.5e8 Msun or so). Discussed this with Emily and we figured out why that was the case.
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Moving forward:
- I think it's just a matter of me tracking down the group membership, halo masses, and computing nu10 for the "new" galaxies that currently are blank. It's been a bit of a hassle organizing all the data/tracking down rbs/sigmas, but this is next on the list. The group membership should all be straightforward, computing nu10 a bit more involved since it's been awhile since I've revised those calculations.